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sir_quirky_k ([info]sir_quirky_k) wrote,
@ 2008-01-02 23:27:00

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Current music:Idina Menzel - No Good Deed
Entry tags:crazy ideas, music, singing

The two-letter wild tangent, and a proposed twist for the BBC casting shows
The year starts with a report on the biggest charity shop raid I've ever completed; standout findings were albums by two separate bands formed by students I knew from my secondary school and sixth form respectively. The latter might be interesting, a rock group with string arrangements, and the vocalist (the friend I knew) is a classically-trained soprano - the obvious reference is to Nightwish, but shall judge after listening.

Another find was a double album of musical theatre songs for £1.49. All various established performers, including Barbara Dickson singing Tell Me It's Not True (which Gemma taught me, way back whenever) and most of the expected songs up to the mid-1990s. I'll mention the others as I listen to them.

A diversion on that raid was to the music shop where Alice was purchased. There was a sale on some sheet music; mostly old exam board pieces for piano and sometimes other instruments, but also the odd album from The Dumper. The one I perhaps should have purchased, but didn't: Lucie Silvas, Breathe In, £3.99. The one I took a look at and rolled eyes at: Delta Goodrem, Innocent Eyes, £2.99. Now, I recalled Born To Try being a rather difficult song to sing, but lawks - F3-Ab5! That's... scary.

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The wild tangent was not unrelated to all that, but was sparked by a conversation regarding ATV's tweaks to their use of the soaps - replacing the Sunday evening slots with a permanent doubling of the Tuesday edition of EMMERDALE to one hour (presumably sparked by how special hour-long episodes easily beat EASTENDERS) and the creation of a Friday CORONATION STREET double-header in the same vein as that which exists on Monday - and the resultant weekend rejig, with DANCING ON ICE moving to Sundays in what can only be perceived as admitting defeat on Saturday to WHO... and, after THE ONE AND ONLY, the third BBC1 West End casting show.

Now, my problem with this was that they used the IDLE format where it did not belong. Firstly, you have musical theatre people singing other things, not always befitting of the role. While there's only so many pieces from the musical theatre tradition that would fit (especially when every contestant is theoretically of the same type of voice, and especially when - as with Maria - this is a voice type with a scarcity of musical theatre roles anyway), you are at least maintaining the pretence of an audition for a given role, and should act somewhat accordingly. This leads on to the second flaw, which is the presence of a bog-standard all-in, one-gone-per-week elimination format. It's reasonably sound, but does add to the feeling of being derivative.

How to solve a problem like a copycat, then. I'd suggest splitting the competitors up in some form - although admittedly this'll smack of WHY FACTOR, especially the mildly obvious 'assign a judge to each performer' that goes with that. May be better to put in some little tweaks within that structure, and MARIA pulled that off nicely enough. Perhaps steal the 'live performance semi-finals' idea that IDLE had in its first run, and which gave David Sneddon his lucky break in STAR AC 1; it'd give more people their moment in the televisual limelight, and perhaps could operate like the group stages of a World Cup or European Championship, removing half the field over a few performances. A possible idea: 20 performers, split into groups of 10 performing on alternate weeks. Two eliminated in the first two fortnights, then either merge them right away (leaving 12) or have another fortnight with one eliminated each week (leaving 10). Either way, that's 14 performance weeks assuming a three-way final.

My cousin has suggested a possibly better way: multiple weeks of voting, performers accumulating points Eurovision-style until an eventual elimination week, leading eventually to an all-up final. Creates the impression of 'wasted' weeks, but arguably that exists as it is.

Some kind of theming to the rounds might work better. Some free-choice rounds are essential, and I'd throw them in early, so the judges and audience get a feeling for the performers as individuals rather than simply prospective characters (because, like it or not, this kind of thing is a personality contest). Some rounds of just musical theatre, or clearly not-dissimilar music, would be very useful.

And here's the other concept, which could work for the semi-final; everyone is given four songs to learn. They might be musical theatre numbers, they might not, but they're chosen to roughly fit the demands of the role in question. (This may involve learning something in an unfamiliar key, same one for all.) There's room for creativity here; one could pick a Gilbert & Sullivan piece for Maria somewhere amongst the list, for instance.

Here's the rub. Each performer will sing two songs. Which two, they aren't told until a short time before performance, and each will have a separate combination. (With 4C2=6, one could use this for any round with fewer than seven remaining.) Result: direct comparison without everyone doing the same songs, creates interesting 'oh, wonder what would have happened if s/he had done that one' (with possibly hearing some of the rehearsals for the unused songs in the BBC3 shows?), and mirrors the pressure of musical theatre.

Here's a starter; you (assuming [info]daweaver is the only one reading this) can improve on this, not least because ISTR you mentioning having the relevant score for reference also...

Let's hypothetically imagine that we're casting for Wicked, specifically for Elphaba. There's some rather high (the end of Thank Goodness), low (near the end of No Good Deed) and long (at the end of No Good Deed) notes, all sorts of dynamic changes, and all sorts of nasty leaps (Defying Gravity). Here's my selection:

* Born To Try, Delta Goodrem
* Another Place To Fall, KT Tunstall
* Nothing Compares 2 U, Sinead O'Connor
* It's Oh So Quiet, Bjork

First one, that's the range demands covered - see earlier part of the post. (Is there anything higher than Ab5 that Elphaba has to sing?) Second one, I'm not sure about - again it goes low (to E3, in fact, which is possibly lower than is required), and it's got more in common with the 'big' numbers of the show, but there's probably a better choice, perhaps another musical theatre piece. Third one, that's got a big upward leap in the chorus, plenty of room for emotional vulnerability there; bet it'd be savagely cut. Fourth one, well that's almost too obvious.

Consider this just a wild post to start 2008. Tomorrow - back to Southampton. Normal posting will not be resumed until at least Saturday, owing to Internet downtime at the university. Oh wait. I'll be in Fareham Friday, if I get lucky with the Cable Corp connection there then there'll be a blog post...



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Any mug can schedule ITV
[info]daweaver
2008-01-03 07:13 pm UTC (link)
Crikey, that's a wide range.

replacing the Sunday evening slots with a permanent doubling of the Tuesday edition of EMMERDALE to one hour (presumably sparked by how special hour-long episodes easily beat EASTENDERS)

More probably that they have no frickin' idea what to do with the 8pm half-hour when there's no football. I assume that the SC/NI opt-outs move to 7pm, or they re-jig the back end of the evening.

the creation of a Friday CORONATION STREET double-header in the same vein as Monday

Don't expect that to last. Monday is a television night, Friday is a going out night, particularly in the summer.

DANCING ON ICE moving to Sundays in what can only be perceived as admitting defeat on Saturday to WHO

Even though Willow and the Gopher have never gone head-to-head against CBBC's latest? No, DoI was ITV's greatest ratings success last year. I think the process was:

* Spot weakness on non-football Tuesdays, bung more Emmerdale Farm there from Sunday.
* Spot imbalance on Sundays, which have been soap and fluffy drama since the mid-90s.
* Spot that Saturday is filling up with Primeval and Duel starting before the end of the month, and that Dancing on Ice and The Con.Test didn't combine well last year.
* Recall that Millionaire tanked on Sundays in 2000.
* Shift DoI to Sundays.
* Find that this leaves Coronation-street surplus to requirements, bung it to the lightly-trafficked Friday night.
* Pray that they don't bugger up the voting for the final this year.

after THE ONE AND ONLY, the third BBC1 West End casting show.

Ah, no. The One and Only is a tribute act programme, auditioning for a contract in a muddy field in Nevada. You'll be thinking of I'd Do Anything for OLIVER!, that looks set to run in the spring.

How to solve a problem like a copycat, then.

Assuming an nine week run, we'll take one week of filmed auditions, two weeks of semi-finals cutting groups of 10 down to 5. Next two weeks, 10 become 8 become 6, then the remaining 6 remain for three weeks, reducing to three for the grand final. I do like the idea of accumulating points over more than one week, and particularly the multiple versions of the same song.

I don't have the Wicked score, just the cast album. The proposed songs would work, though It's oh so quiet would properly belong in a musical theatre round. At that stage of the contest, we might be able to get away with something demanding like Dancing queen, but something like Crying (the k d lang / Orbison version) or It's my party have more useful vocal ranges. Dare I suggest that some of the early Cantsing catalogue - Vision of love and/or Dreamlover - could be adapted well.

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Typing from Fareham, and sadly having to use Internet Deplorer...
[info]sir_quirky_k
2008-01-04 02:57 pm UTC (link)
I probably didn't make myself clear: I knew there was another casting show after The One And Only, but implied in my wording that the two were one and the same, wrongly. Apologies.

I think the question regarding the use of such songs would be 'to what extent is the role demanding of such'? In the case of Elphaba, sufficiently so that I for one would put Dancing Queen in (especially as there's already something with a two-octave range in that selection anyway). I expect one of my friends has the Wicked score, and if they do I shall see if I can peruse it. (Actually, ISTR seeing it before in a shop near the National Theatre, while walking from Victoria to Upper Ground for the taping of one of the worst game shows of all time.)

Multiple versions of the same song is taking the IDLE final-song twist, but in this instance doing it in a manner that heaps pressure onto the contestants in another way, one that matches quite closely the demands of a prospective musical theatre career.

ITV certainly don't seem to know what to do with non-football Tuesdays, and a Thornton-hosted DEAL OR NO DEAL, after reclaiming the format from Channel 4 who have rebranded it NOEL'S GAMBLING PARTY, would be one of the least-bad options. (See comment box passim.)

If the Tuesday hour-long EMMERDALE does enough damage to EASTENDERS but the Friday CORRIE double-header struggles, don't be surprised if ITV opt for hour-long CORRIE on Fridays that also clashes with EASTENDERS. If ITV could use its two soaps to damage - possibly fatally - BBC's one, that would be one of the biggest shifts in the ratings battle of all time. That said, it would take something as seismic as the end of EASTENDERS for ITV to begin to look competitive...

ISTR that CON.TEST was doing quite well with the help of the CELEBRITY ICE SKATING lead-in, although the WHY FACTOR/CELEBRITY FAMILY FORTUNES double worked rather better and did some damage to the overrated INNIT, a show that can make the aforementioned GAMBLING PARTY look fair.

Back to the final point: oh that would be interesting, and perhaps that would show up the technically proficient unimaginative performers - who'd ape Cantsing - from those who can offer something different.

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Re: Typing from Fareham, and sadly having to use Internet Deplorer...
[info]daweaver
2008-01-05 11:12 am UTC (link)
I would put Dancing Queen in (especially as there's already something with a two-octave range in that selection anyway).

Good point, especially as if one can cope with ABBA, one can cope with almost anything Schwarz can throw without breaking sweat.

Multiple versions of the same song is taking the IDLE final-song twist, but in this instance doing it in a manner that heaps pressure onto the contestants in another way, one that matches quite closely the demands of a prospective musical theatre career.

Another reason for doing this, then. The idea of having a common point of reference is one that other shows might wish to consider, but that'll have to wait for my review of The One and Only, which in turn waits for the first live show next week.

The choice of Cantsing songs was deliberate, they're not musical theatre, but are good vocal auditions.

ITV certainly don't seem to know what to do with non-football Tuesdays

For the record, the line-up for 15 January is:
7pm Emmerdale
8pm Millionaire
9pm Taggart (New!)
10.05 News at Ten
10.35 Sandbanks (New! CAUTION: Contains Piers Moron)
11.05 Regionalia!

a Thornton-hosted DEAL OR NO DEAL, after reclaiming the format from Channel 4, would be one of the least-bad options.

The trouble is that there are so few opportunities for ITV to build up steam: though the EL only operates for twelve Tuesdays under the current format (increasing to 16 from the 2009-10 competition), the only runs of more than three weeks are the January-February break, and the summer from the start of May. Self-contained programming is necessary; DEAL with Thornton would have to use the models rather than the cast of future players.

If the Tuesday hour-long EMMERDALE does enough damage to EASTENDERS but the Friday CORRIE double-header struggles, don't be surprised if ITV opt for hour-long CORRIE on Fridays that also clashes with EASTENDERS.

They might try that, but I can see Corrie returning to Sunday nights while Emmerdale persists in its new arrangement.

If ITV could use its two soaps to damage - possibly fatally - BBC's one, that would be one of the biggest shifts in the ratings battle of all time.

True, but highly unlikely; the Beeb's first response would be to shift the Friday episode, either to Wednesday or to 7.30. Eastenders returns good audiences for a fairly small outlay - it's certainly a lot cheaper than any period drama, and reaches audiences that don't see a lot of other BBC programmes. If the ratings battle means that EE is super-serving the BBC's existing viewers, it'll go, but that's a very big ask.

ISTR that CON.TEST was doing quite well with the help of the CELEBRITY ICE SKATING lead-in,

Not as well as all that: there was a fairly large drop-off at the start of the show, and a swift build for the final ten minutes. It certainly didn't do well enough to follow to Sunday nights.

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Back in Southampton with Firefox and NoScript! Woohoo!
[info]sir_quirky_k
2008-01-05 11:59 am UTC (link)
Yup, ITV DoND on Tuesdays would be a MILJOENENJACHT clone. Well, realistically it'd probably be a clone of the FARCE version, which is still an improvement on NOEL'S GAMBLING PARTY, although puh-leaze get rid of the flashing neon pillars (now present in a much less irritating form on GAMBLING PARTY, but they flash on and off at about 3Hz in the FARCE version, and that'd have them skirting the edge of OFCOM regulations here. See also: We exist, too.)

Would ITV be advised to use the slot for one-off dramas, or perhaps films? DANCE PARTY MILLIONAIRE 2007 works as a one-shot, but a two-week straddle would be too much; assuming TAGGART is a one-shot procedural crime drama (I've never seen it, that's Mum's televisual domain not mine), that works.

Good point on CON.TEST - didn't realise the detail. Was a similar pattern present with CELEBRITY FAMILY FORTUNES after WHY-FACTOR? (And it's worth noting that an IDLE lead-in single-handedly propelled UNANONEMOUS and ARE YOU SMARTER to huge ratings and almost unwatched UK adaptations.)

EE probably does have to stay at any cost, you're right; arguably the best measure of public service broadcaster success is aggregate viewer satisfaction per unit of expenditure, and I think EastEnders is probably second only to Strictly there. The BBC would have to find a similarly successful replacement that's distinctly Something Else, and that's probably not possible.

Two years ago, I predicted a Wednesday episode of EastEnders. That was way out of left field, a desperate attempt to fill in for one prediction that overlapped the other. This year, I'm quite happy to stick my neck out and predict precisely the same with rather more confidence.

The choice of Cantsing songs was deliberate; they're... good vocal auditions.

Which rather neatly brings me back to another old comment box, in which I mentioned a book intented for female auditionees full of pieces sitting remarkably low. Much popular music does not place a significant premium on notes above E5; the ending of Thank Goodness alone disproves the notion that such an approach applies to casting a prospective Elphaba.

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Re: Back in Southampton with Firefox and NoScript! Woohoo!
[info]daweaver
2008-01-06 11:27 am UTC (link)
ITV DoND on Tuesdays would be a MILJOENENJACHT clone.

Perhaps shorn of the opening quiz, but adding in 26 boxes and sorting it to a top prize of a million.

Would ITV be advised to use the slot for one-off dramas, or perhaps films?

Taggart is actually a six-part series, neatly filling the gap to the resumption of the football on 19 Feb. The presence of News at Ten Oh Five means that feature films will get interrupted half-way through, but ITV is very good at one-hour dramas.

Was a similar pattern present with CELEBRITY FAMILY FORTUNES after WHY-FACTOR?

There's always going to be a drop-off as soon as X finishes, and a marked jump when the results start, but (from what I've seen) the recovery was a little more gradual through the show.

arguably the best measure of public service broadcaster success is aggregate viewer satisfaction per unit of expenditure, and I think EastEnders is probably second only to Strictly there.

And some of the cheap daytime programmes - for instance Bargain Hunt has a remarkably small budget and achieves very good audience reaction.

Two years ago, I predicted a Wednesday episode of EastEnders. This year, I'm quite happy to stick my neck out and predict precisely the same with rather more confidence.

Possible, for the autumn, but I think more likely to be a transfer from Tuesday rather than Friday.

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